The case against Mike Vick

[skog]

Let me start off by saying Mike Vick does deserve a second chance in the NFL, I do believe in second chances and individual redemption. I won't even get into what he has done or his past allegations, that's in the past, but simply focus on Mike Vick and where he would fit in with the Raiders from a football standpoint.

At this point in time, that second chance Vick will most likely get should not be with the Oakland Raiders. Maybe in a perfect world, where the Raiders aren't already focused on bringing along young, raw talent already on the roster. Vick needs a team already further along in the rebuilding process looking for a boost. The Raiders are not that team for sure, not even close. It would take alot for them to start the season off among the leagues elite teams, everything would have to fall in place from week 1. Looking for the final piece to help us battle the AFC powerhouses, Vick's athleticism could serve a purpose, but only then would they be able to consider Vick. Oakland is not prepared for that type of commitment just yet, and where exactly would Vick fit into the offense and at what position?

QB - I don't see many NFL teams going after Vick the QB, let alone the Raiders. Vick had some pretty poor statistics as a passer in his tenure with the Falcons, and he is also years removed from the game. Yes, he could run the ball well from the QB position but we need somebody to throw the ball to our receivers too. This is the year we need JaMarcus to break out, and he is already looking over his shoulder at Jeff Garcia, no need for any further distractions or stunting of his growth.

RB - The Raiders already have a strong running game set up, and at this point have to provide touches to McFadden, Bush and Fargas. There is no need to throw another name into that equation, this season should be focused on McFadden/Bush not McFadden/Bush/Vick. I also feel he wouldn't be as dangerous lined up as a pure RB as opposed to running from the QB position. Keep the McFadden/Bush dream tandem alive.

WR - Why? I don't have much proof whether or not Vick can actually catch a football. Our WR core is already full with young, raw talent and they have their own issues we need to concentrate on, rather than bringing in a QB years removed from the game to teach him how to be a WR. We have DHB, whom most people believe was a horrible pick a #7 overall, and the rumor on him is he can't catch. We have Javon Walker, with all of his personal issues and injuries and his bionic knee trying to make a comeback. Schilens and Murphy seem to be bright spots coming into the season, and they earned their reps, lets see what they can do. I don't see throwing another project receiver into the mix as an option at this point.

Wildcat - Ok, maybe. But McFadden is supposed to be a pro at running the Wildcat and we saw very few instances last season of him running it. I'm sure at this point McFadden would run it alot better than Vick, you could make the argument that Vick may team up well with McFadden in the Wildcat, based on pure athleticism I could not disagree with that.

Mike Vick is just not a good fit for Oakland at this point in time. Our coaching staff has been working hard at bringing good character to the organization, and should remain focused on the young guys we have drafted or signed already. The media circus, and oh yes there will be one, would be an unneeded distraction to a team trying to make a turnaround after 6-years of futility, with young players trying to make an impact. What if we start the season with a respectable record? By the time Vick is eligible to play it would only take away from what this team and coaching staff had accomplished. Also, I'm not trying to see a game in Oakland with PETA lined up picketing everywhere causing unneeded drama. That could only be bad news. It would probably backfire on the fans and continue to make us look bad in the eyes of the media.

To Mike Vick, I hope he gets a second chance, just not with this team. I wish him luck wherever he may land, just stay away from the silver and black. I support the current youth movement we have going with this team, but would not support the acquisition of Mike Vick.

[Raidermaiden]

Originally Posted by skog

Let me start off by saying Mike Vick does deserve a second chance in the NFL, I do believe in second chances and individual redemption. I won't even get into what he has done or his past allegations, that's in the past, but simply focus on Mike Vick and where he would fit in with the Raiders from a football standpoint.

At this point in time, that second chance Vick will most likely get should not be with the Oakland Raiders. Maybe in a perfect world, where the Raiders aren't already focused on bringing along young, raw talent already on the roster. Vick needs a team already further along in the rebuilding process looking for a boost. The Raiders are not that team for sure, not even close. It would take alot for them to start the season off among the leagues elite teams, everything would have to fall in place from week 1. Looking for the final piece to help us battle the AFC powerhouses, Vick's athleticism could serve a purpose, but only then would they be able to consider Vick. Oakland is not prepared for that type of commitment just yet, and where exactly would Vick fit into the offense and at what position?

QB - I don't see many NFL teams going after Vick the QB, let alone the Raiders. Vick had some pretty poor statistics as a passer in his tenure with the Falcons, and he is also years removed from the game. Yes, he could run the ball well from the QB position but we need somebody to throw the ball to our receivers too. This is the year we need JaMarcus to break out, and he is already looking over his shoulder at Jeff Garcia, no need for any further distractions or stunting of his growth.

RB - The Raiders already have a strong running game set up, and at this point have to provide touches to McFadden, Bush and Fargas. There is no need to throw another name into that equation, this season should be focused on McFadden/Bush not McFadden/Bush/Vick. I also feel he wouldn't be as dangerous lined up as a pure RB as opposed to running from the QB position. Keep the McFadden/Bush dream tandem alive.

WR - Why? I don't have much proof whether or not Vick can actually catch a football. Our WR core is already full with young, raw talent and they have their own issues we need to concentrate on, rather than bringing in a QB years removed from the game to teach him how to be a WR. We have DHB, whom most people believe was a horrible pick a #7 overall, and the rumor on him is he can't catch. We have Javon Walker, with all of his personal issues and injuries and his bionic knee trying to make a comeback. Schilens and Murphy seem to be bright spots coming into the season, and they earned their reps, lets see what they can do. I don't see throwing another project receiver into the mix as an option at this point.

Wildcat - Ok, maybe. But McFadden is supposed to be a pro at running the Wildcat and we saw very few instances last season of him running it. I'm sure at this point McFadden would run it alot better than Vick, you could make the argument that Vick may team up well with McFadden in the Wildcat, based on pure athleticism I could not disagree with that.

Mike Vick is just not a good fit for Oakland at this point in time. Our coaching staff has been working hard at bringing good character to the organization, and should remain focused on the young guys we have drafted or signed already. The media circus, and oh yes there will be one, would be an unneeded distraction to a team trying to make a turnaround after 6-years of futility, with young players trying to make an impact. What if we start the season with a respectable record? By the time Vick is eligible to play it would only take away from what this team and coaching staff had accomplished. Also, I'm not trying to see a game in Oakland with PETA lined up picketing everywhere causing unneeded drama. That could only be bad news. It would probably backfire on the fans and continue to make us look bad in the eyes of the media.

To Mike Vick, I hope he gets a second chance, just not with this team. I wish him luck wherever he may land, just stay away from the silver and black. I support the current youth movement we have going with this team, but would not support the acquisition of Mike Vick.

Very well written and well said I so agree.

[~OG~]

Nice write up SKOG.

I couldn't agree more, this young team and Russell would suffer more with Vick on board, as far as who would run the "wildcat" better, there's no question Vick would be the better player for that because of his arm. When I saw McFadden throw passes in college, the ball sail more then it having a clean spiral.

[Jimi18]

It really all depends on how ready Vick is.. or how football ready..
does he just meed to get his income back? or does he really want to play? and can he be the Vick he once was?
I do not forsee Vick oin a Raiders uniform.. but i would welcome him as long as it was for the right reasons at the right time.
I do hope he gets his shot back into the NFL, and should, but just not in the AFC west.

nice write up skog

[skog]

Originally Posted by ~OG~

Nice write up SKOG.

I couldn't agree more, this young team and Russell would suffer more with Vick on board, as far as who would run the "wildcat" better, there's no question Vick would be the better player for that because of his arm. When I saw McFadden throw passes in college, the ball sail more then it having a clean spiral.

True, Vick may have the stronger arm, but he isnt the most accurate. He would complete just over 50% of his passes when he played for Atlanta, they blamed alot on the receivers but it was still a recurring trend. McFadden had a much greater completion percentage in college, I know that may not translate into NFL numbers but it seems he carries the play out whether it be a spiral or not.

[~OG~]

Originally Posted by skog

True, Vick may have the stronger arm, but he isnt the most accurate. He would complete just over 50% of his passes when he played for Atlanta, they blamed alot on the receivers but it was still a recurring trend. McFadden had a much greater completion percentage in college, I know that may not translate into NFL numbers but it seems he carries the play out whether it be a spiral or not.

My point is that Vick can throw the ball any where on the field and McFadden only threw in goaline situations because his arm strength is not there..

But let's talk the about the Wildcat formation, this formation has involve through the years in college so it's nothing new in football. The main problem the wildcat causes is confusion but in the NFL, teams will adopt to it much faster then they would in College. Me personally I'm not a fan of gimmick plays and yes I think the wildcat is a gimmick, what I like is hard nose football where you lineup in the I formation and play mash mouth football so that's another reason I say NO to Micheal Vick in a silver & black uniform.

[Attyla]

Vick is a value pick up. To get him for virtually the veteran minimum reduces the risk. If he becomes even 80% of what he was, but is not asked to make the throws on a regular basis, he becomes a weapon you would welcome with open arms if he did not have the past.

With the past, admittedly, you have more issues to deal with...but they are dealable. They should not be the only factor that keeps him off your team.

Put it to you this way, if he goes to Denver, San Diego, or KC, I dont want to face the potential twice a year given his athletic skills, despite a questionable accuracy

[skog]

Originally Posted by ~OG~

My point is that Vick can throw the ball any where on the field and McFadden only threw in goaline situations because his arm strength is not there..

But let's talk the about the Wildcat formation, this formation has involve through the years in college so it's nothing new in football. The main problem the wildcat causes is confusion but in the NFL, teams will adopt to it much faster then they would in College. Me personally I'm not a fan of gimmick plays and yes I think the wildcat is a gimmick, what I like is hard nose football where you lineup in the I formation and play mash mouth football so that's another reason I say NO to Micheal Vick in a silver & black uniform.

I agree with you on the Wildcat, I thought once we drafted McFadden last year we would test it out alot more, we only ran it a few times and with mixed results. Other teams like Miami, used it very well throughout the season, and I am sure teams will come better prepared for it this season now that they know what to look for. Id still like to see the Raiders put it into action once in awhile but I dont want to over-gimmick our playbooks either. A little bit of trickery is fine to keep the defenses on their toes, but we need to get back to basics first and foremost.

[~OG~]

Originally Posted by Attyla

Vick is a value pick up. To get him for virtually the veteran minimum reduces the risk. If he becomes even 80% of what he was, but is not asked to make the throws on a regular basis, he becomes a weapon you would welcome with open arms if he did not have the past.

With the past, admittedly, you have more issues to deal with...but they are dealable. They should not be the only factor that keeps him off your team.

Put it to you this way, if he goes to Denver, San Diego, or KC, I dont want to face the potential twice a year given his athletic skills, despite a questionable accuracy

I would hate to see him in the AFC West also.

Originally Posted by skog

I agree with you on the Wildcat, I thought once we drafted McFadden last year we would test it out alot more, we only ran it a few times and with mixed results. Other teams like Miami, used it very well throughout the season, and I am sure teams will come better prepared for it this season now that they know what to look for. Id still like to see the Raiders put it into action once in awhile but I dont want to over-gimmick our playbooks either. A little bit of trickery is fine to keep the defenses on their toes, but we need to get back to basics first and foremost.

I'm quite sure we will have different packages for McFadden but I rather have us run reverses from the I or ACE package and have it all set up by our power running game.

[skog]

Originally Posted by Attyla

Vick is a value pick up. To get him for virtually the veteran minimum reduces the risk. If he becomes even 80% of what he was, but is not asked to make the throws on a regular basis, he becomes a weapon you would welcome with open arms if he did not have the past.

With the past, admittedly, you have more issues to deal with...but they are dealable. They should not be the only factor that keeps him off your team.

Put it to you this way, if he goes to Denver, San Diego, or KC, I dont want to face the potential twice a year given his athletic skills, despite a questionable accuracy

Its not as much about the value for me, and who said he would come cheap? I believe he will command a higher salary than a veteran minimum because of the debts he has to pay. I did my best not to bring up his past but it is always gonna be there to haunt him, like it or not. I wouldnt expect him to become 80% of the player he once was, removed from the game for 3 years and learning a new position and offense in a shortened season. Doesnt really scream value to me. Our team has become full of talented athletes trying to find their way along, no sense in adding one more.